What about the Kids?

Introducing a new story about poly that seems to be causing problems for the child:

I am hoping a simple sit-down will suffice to clear the air in this instance, but the outcome of the situation is still pending.
 
Hi Kevin,

I haven't been on the list in a long time. Dinged heart sent me a message about this -I really like you and wanted to respond. I haven't read the other posts, so don't know if I repeat.

I think it depends on the family. Thus far, our one 11 year son has had little negative effects. We are a family that has friends of all genders, sexualities, races, and abilities, even severe disabilities. My son is the only person I have ever met who actually has no prejudice. Socially and philosophically, poly was no big deal to him because he has been exposed to and told about a wide variety of people.

There are a few things. His father works a lot and was spending one night a week with his girlfriend. My son often complained about his father's absence. My son also seems to have a few "funny feelings" about me dating. I've had two boyfriends and he knew a lot about them but I usually keep quiet when I go on a date.

The fact that my husband was gone a lot also created a lot of arguing between us. My son, tho, loved my husbands GF, and entirely accepted her without reservation. I mean her personality. I have been at a loss on how to counsel my son about sex. I don't know what I think about promiscuity myself, so I am not sure how to teach him in this way. (not that poly people are promiscuous, but I am because I'm coming to terms with being desexualized as a young person).

However, much of what I say applies to non-poly families too. Many many fathers aren't able to be home enough. Many many sons are possessive of their mother's time. So it's all pretty average.
 
Hi bofish,

Thanks for sharing from your own story on this subject; it sounds like your son is doing fine with the poly, not necessarily perfect but fine nonetheless.

I think time management is one of the biggest issues in poly; all the moreso if kids are in the picture. One has to walk a fine balance.

Glad to hear from you in general, it has been awhile.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
This doesn't have to do with kids and poly, but it has to do with kids hating that one of their parents is some kind of "deviant." In this case, it is a son hating that his dad is a girly man (and a cuckold).

http://www.polyamory.sbs/forum/showthread.php?p=279624#post279624

Does it look to you like the man's son was psychologically damaged by how his dad acted, or at least, that he could have been psychologically damaged by it? Do you think that being poly can have a similar effect on the kids?
 
Having read that thread, I think the son was impacted by seeing his father disrespected by the women in his life, and quite likely by being told things about his father's sex life by his mother and stepmother. There are things a kid just doesn't need to know about their parents, regardless of whether the "kid" is a child or an adult.

I also think it can be difficult for some to comprehend the difference between being a cuckold and being weak and useless... Hubby gets turned on by seeing another man kissing me (or more) and by knowing other men are watching me, but he's far from weak. He just likes to watch sometimes.

I believe that if poly is presented as something acceptable and if all involved are respectful of one another--and maintain reasonable boundaries about what the kids are told or exposed to--it wouldn't be any more damaging than a mono relationship, assuming the relationship or polyship is healthy. On the other hand, it can be difficult to predict how a kid would react to certain information; some might become angered or "damaged" by it. So I guess the real answer is "it depends... on the kid, on the parents, and on the relationship."
 
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Good answer KC43 ...

... and my impression is that dingedheart (and others) see *deviance* as the core sin that poly parents commit (against their children) ... and even that *angering* their children (through deviant behavior) is the greater consequential sin than is *damaging* them. And I am open to being corrected about this if I am wrong, but that right now is my impression.

So are the root questions behind this thread, "What's the right way to handle your deviant inclinations as a parent when you have kids? If you're poly, do you tell them at all? What lengths do you go to to hide it? Is abstinence your only good way (to handle your deviant inclinations)?"
 
I have a little bit of an issue with "deviance/deviant"... I'm assuming you're using it in the original context, which is "deviating from the norm", but the word "deviant" in particular has taken on extremely negative connotations and is often applied to criminals or those who engage in harmful/immoral activities. (Immoral being a highly subjective term anyway, but "deviant" is often used by highly judgmental people.)

Now that that's out of the way...

Kids who are taught that being gay is wrong are going to grow up believing that being gay is wrong, and if they're exposed to homosexual activity, they might be "damaged" by it because they've been taught that it's wrong. This might particularly be the case if they're *engaging* in homosexual activity. To some, homosexuality is "deviant." That appears to be the case with the son in the post you've linked to.

S2's ex-wife is now living in a committed relationship with her girlfriend, and as soon as the divorce between S2 and his ex is finalized, she and her girlfriend are getting married. S2 and his ex have two sons, ages 9 and 6. S2's family, and some of his ex's family, are up in arms because "lesbians shouldn't raise children" and "those boys are going to grow up not knowing what marriage is supposed to be" and other BS prejudice.

The *boys* absolutely adore their stepmother, and don't care that their mother is in love with another woman. The 9-year-old has struggled with the fact that his dad no longer lives with him, but that's a divorce issue, not a "mom's a lesbian" issue. The boys have been presented with the situation as something that not everyone does, but that isn't wrong or abnormal, just different.

I think it's the same with polyamory. If kids are presented with it as "this isn't for everyone, but it's just a different way of having relationships and being in love", I don't think they'll be damaged in any way. They'll see it as normal and acceptable, albeit "different." The damage would come if they were exposed to more than they could mentally/emotionally handle at too young an age, whether that's about the relationship or about sex or whatever. But that would be true of children who live in monogamous households as well. There are some things that kids are just not equipped to handle at certain ages, and I think the "damage" comes when they're exposed to those things before they're ready.

I don't hide being polyamorous from my kids. I haven't *told* my 16-year-old yet, because I'm trying to figure out how to and because I need to make sure she won't tell her father (my ex), but she knows or at least suspects. She's been asking her 19-year-old sister a bunch of questions lately about why I spend so much time with S2, so that discussion is rapidly approaching, I think. But even though their dad and his family are very closed-minded and prejudiced, I've raised my kids to accept and respect all types of sexualities, gender identities, and relationship structures, at least among consenting adults.

My 19-year-old's only concern when I told her the situation was that Hubby and I might split up; once she was assured that any other relationships are *in addition* to the marriage, not an attempt to *replace* the marriage, she thought it was "cool" and has told me she's glad I have more than one man in my life who loves me. If I explain it properly to the 16-year-old (who's on the autism spectrum and very literal, so proper phrasing is essential), I believe she'll feel the same way. Both kids have met S2, and my 16-year-old, who generally doesn't like anyone, has asked if she can go hiking with him and me next spring, which is a vote of approval from her.
 
Three stories

These are not directly related to poly, but more raising children.

When my oldest daughter was seven and at school, they had children say something about the school, something they liked. The boy on this day said he liked his class because it only had Japanese kids in it. Now where we lived was rampant with descendants of Korean slaves brought to work the coal mines. Fortunately, the Japanese do not allow these third and fourth generation Koreans, born and raised in Japan to be citizens. They try to blend, very well to my poor eyes, using names like Hayashi instead of Yoon and Soon.

But during the day kids would run up to my daughter, point at her and scream, "gaijin" (which means foreigner, but literally translates to outside person). These children would laugh manically and run off. About 20 kids did this.

This blew up into a major scandal in our to own and minor in Tokyo some 600 km away. News people came, because who wants to miss a good story on racism.

The school sent one representative and the mayor another, they did come together to apologize. It was the first we'd heard of this because we do not watch the news. We have children and Sailor Moon takes priority.

We called My daughter in and asked her about it. She was like, what? (Not the bitchy US teen WHAAAT!?!) and I asked her if it bothered her. She explained to me, in English, so I suspect the visitors did not follow everything she said, but I asked she was answering me, she said, she had her friends and none of her friends did this. So who cared. She went on to say, she was the only kid in her school with like a "real" foreign father. At 6' and white with round eyes I do stick out. Plus she pointed out we owned the only Real English School in the city so we were sort of famous. "So everyone knows, I have a foreign father." Totally calm and cool about it.

I asked how she felt when the kids came up and said that and she said she thought it was kind of stupid on their parts because of father school etc. Like Duh.

The visitors asked if it bothered her that she was half foreign and half Japanese. Now I had let her sit in on a philosophical discussion with a group of friends and I held that my kids were not halfs (this is the actual word they use) but doubles, 100% Japanese and 100% American. Apparently she was actually listening, following the discussion and liked the idea. So she explained to these people she was a double. They had trouble processing the information. Education is very standardized in Japan. But she was the tallest kid in her class, even the boys were at least and inch shorter, so I think they might have thought it was possible there could be two entire people inside this young girl.

More delegates came. Some from the National government, but we did not include my daughter (my daughter is not a fan of repetition, except for watching Aladdin 102 times with me one year) and my wife and I did most of the talking.

Those discussions tended to be quite long because they would ask a question, in Japanese and I would answer in Japanese and then they would have to ask my wife what. I had said and she would repeat what I had said usually word for word. Back then it was assumed gaijin could not speak Japanese and so I am sure hearing one speak Japanese had not entered their minds. One charming fellow who was Japanese came and spoke to me in English, but I am from NYC and already knew people from foreign countries could learn English. I learned near the end he had gone to university in England, but again NYC, I'd met some people from Great Britain and even read books written by people from that sad country and learned how to understand them.

Maybe telling your children, the other children are just envious because they have more parents than they do, might be a solution.

Cont 2
 
I am new to this forum, but I am not new to the poly lifestyle. Many people on this forum have read my wife's posts and threads. And my wife. Debbie, has been very open in this forum. I want to include how we have been at home with her fifteen year old living with us.

When Antonio was living with us, Debbie's son very much liked having Antonio around. Debbie's son and Antonio often went out for hot chocolate on Saturday mornings, and Debbie's son and Antonio trained together doing martial arts. When Antonio moved in with us we talked with Debbie's son and told him that Antonio was not only a live-in, but he was also his mother's boyfriend.

The three of us talked with Debbie's son about sleeping arrangements and that there would be times when Antonio would be sharing a bed with us. We told Debbie's son that love is something we felt should be shared. We asked Debbie's son how he felt about his mom having a boyfriend. His response was, "Like Roy?" and we said yes. For those not in the know, Roy is a lover that Debbie has considered her "other husband" for several years. When Debbie's son asked, "Like Roy?" we said yes. He responded saying that he was okay with it and that he liked Antonio.

We do not have men over when Debbie's son is home, unless they are men that Debbie's son has gotten to know because we have camped together or gone fishing with, or something like that. Debbie is never overly sexual when other men are around and her son is around as well. Yet, Debbie does hug and kiss other men in her son's presence.

Debbie's son has a keen understanding of poly, and has told us that he likes that other men make his mother happy. Debbie's son likes one of Debbie's newest boyfriends as well. Debbie's boyfriend, Scott, has allowed Debbie's son to work on cars with him and has taught him a considerable amount about repairing cars. Tom, another one of our friends, who is also one of Debbie's boyfriends has taught Debbie's son quite a lot about computers.

Debbie's son is gay and understands why people have more than one lover. Debbie's son is currently dating two boys that he goes to school with. When we recently talked with Debbie's son about a new man we are having move in with us, Debbie's son told us that as long as we like him that he is sure that he will like him as well. There was no question of where anyone would sleep or anything. There was simply acceptance.

Since Debbie and I have been together we have had three men live with us, and Debbie's son liked all three of them and saw them as good friends and mentors. I do not feel that poly is bad for children, but I do believe that all children are different and have different levels of understanding.

Because we had men living with us, hiding the fact that Debbie and these men had relationships would have been silly. No one was ever openly sexual around Debbie's son, but there were the occasional hugs and kisses. Debbie's son saw love in a real sense all the time. And it taught him that to be loving was a good thing.

When I was with my ex-wife we had several friends who were poly and had children like we did. I recently ran into one of our friend's daughters that I have not seen in almost fifteen years. I asked her how she had been doing and she said that she had two children and that both fathers and she were living together and had been for four years. I asked our old friend's daughter how her sister and family were doing. She said that her sister was living with three men and was as happy as can be, and that her parents we living with another couple and were doing pretty good as well.

Here was a young girl who had grown up in a poly family and had decided to continue living a poly lifestyle as an adult. Her sister had chosen to do so as well. So, it can and does work.

In our home, Debbie's son is not let in on the physical details of his mother's relationships and nothing is ever done openly when he is home, but Debbie's son knows and understands mine and Debbie's relationship. Why? Because we talk to him and listen to him. When men do come to the house during the day, or when Debbie's son is home, and I am home, I go out with Debbie's son and we play Frisbee or Hacky sack. Debbie's son sees these times as times when his mom needs some adult time with friends, nothing more.

Depending on the child's maturity level, as a parent you can talk to them about your poly life. And they can and do understand. And will often tell you that they already knew. Kids are not stupid. They understand more than we give them credit for.
 
Stories 2&3 related

I had two girlfriends (different times) both of whom had walked in on their parents having sex. Apparently, the deadlock on bedroom door was either broken or the parents in their haze of lust had forgotten to use it. Guard dog maybe sleeping, or not well trained to know that while this was a member of the household that when parents were copulating, they should snap, snarl and hold the children at bay.

One set of parents totally freaked out, screaming at their daughter (which is the proscribed method for deflecting responsibility and shifting blame.) she being a good daughter took full responsibility for both the broken lock and the lazy dog. She was such a good girl that years later, she knew that the proper response was to freak out about sex and anything sexual.

I of course, being the horny manipulative bastard that I am and selfishly want to not only have sex, but see her orgasm, mind fucked her over a number of months and ruined all that excellent work her parents had managed to do in mere seconds.

The second girl's parents (which auto correct told me should be girl spa rents) we're clearly defective. They were kind and loving to her during the entire incident. They actually talked to her like she was a human and she grew up with the abnormal belief that sex is normal and natural.

Side notes: those of you who grew up not catholic (I am in this sad and pitiful minority) and were deprived the proper religious upbringing of a qualified pedophile priest,you might see if you can get some advice from Catholic parents, but wear sunglasses and be prepared to raise blast shields. I find the glare from their and their children's halos (which atuo correct tells me should be children' shallows).

To whomever mentioned auditions and another who mentioned unicorn hunting, allow me to offer some thoughts.

I only do group auditions. Cuts down on the time leaving more time for unicorn hunting and for your wife to perhaps to go to the stud muffin shop. This does give you the option to spend more time with your children, which I wonder if it is the best use of your time.

My children were given quite a bit of attention, without being smothered (an option I did not even imagine back then), unfortunately they seem to be well adapted, which makes me feel I have not done my best to provide psychotherapists with fresh clients. They have also never been arrested, so I am fearing now for both the lawyers and luxury car dealerships.

I do answer any and all of my children's questions, foolishly believing if they are clever enough to ask, I don't want them to think I am too stupid to answer. They might over take me. Sadly, when my oldest daughter was 12, she was showing me how to use a Macintosh computer, which as one of the founding members of the largest Mac User Group in Asia, thought I had a working knowledge of.

She went on to Stanford whee she graduated with honors, destroying my dreams of her finding a good pimp. I already had recommended a few good Street corners and even bought her a set of lessons in Pole Dancing. (I did not read the fine print and it turns out these dances involved Polish folk dancing, which my extensive research of Gentlemen's Lounges has show to be a very minor segment of the exotic dancing job market.

In my defense, I foolishly raised my daughter to think for herself, did not explain that all things in life IS paint by numbers and neglected her lessons in defective self image, as I said I was not raised Catholic and my parents let me read anything. That has really damaged my ability to be narrow minded and see the world entirely as Black and white.
 
Unicorn hunting, sorry forgot

I was wool gathering on my sill notions that there might be more than one right answer to a complex problem

First, as an inexperienced unicorn hunter, it is best to find a good guide. Go get in line at the guidelines, I am sure they can assist you.

Clearly you got a defective unicorn, because one of the qualifications is she be bi and only into your husband, unless he is bi and we are opening this idea to a more liberal reading (see comment above about only one right answer).

If you corral a herd of unicorns and make them do a group audition, I find the defective ones tend to stand out.

I would not let one bad apple (I know comparing apples to unicorns is a stretch) spoil the whole bunch, or in this case herd.

Should you decide to to abandon your thinking this was a stupid move on your part (not recommended because it leads to thinking and possibly recovering your healthy sense of self esteem which is so less Ophra/Jerry Springer than a good lack of self esteem) get some lessons in spotting a good one and even then I would do a full DNA screen and full battery of psychological profile testing before giving her a stall in your barn.
 
Unicorn hunting, sorry forgot

I was wool gathering on my sill notions that there might be more than one right answer to a complex problem

First, as an inexperienced unicorn hunter, it is best to find a good guide. Go get in line at the guidelines, I am sure they can assist you.

Clearly you got a defective unicorn, because one of the qualifications is she be bi and only into your husband, unless he is bi and we are opening this idea to a more liberal reading (see comment above about only one right answer).

If you corral a herd of unicorns and make them do a group audition, I find the defective ones tend to stand out.

I would not let one bad apple (I know comparing apples to unicorns is a stretch) spoil the whole bunch, or in this case herd.

Should you decide to to abandon your thinking this was a stupid move on your part (not recommended because it leads to thinking and possibly recovering your healthy sense of self esteem which is so less Ophra/Jerry Springer than a good lack of self esteem) get some lessons in spotting a good one and even then I would do a full DNA screen and full battery of psychological profile testing before giving her a stall in your barn.
 
I appreciate the new responses, I think it extends and deepens the question of poly parenting by essentially asking if any parents do their kids harm by, well, not "fitting in" with the other parents.

Re (from KC43):
"I'm assuming you're using it in the original context, which is 'deviating from the norm,' but the word 'deviant' in particular has taken on extremely negative connotations and is often applied to criminals or those who engage in harmful/immoral activities."
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Correct on all counts ... and if you'll pardon me being a little sneaky, I largely chose the word to see if anyone would object to it (though I did technically mean "deviating from the norm"). Think of it as allowing (for the sake of argument) polyamory to be put in a class that those who vigorously oppose polyamory like to put it in. I think some people consider polyamory to be as sick and pernicious as child molestation. (And some consider homosexuality to be that sick ... and male girliness ... etc.)

Re:
"S2's family, and some of his ex's family, are up in arms because 'lesbians shouldn't raise children' and 'those boys are going to grow up not knowing what marriage is supposed to be' and other BS prejudice."
Click to expand...

Those are classic concerns people have about homosexual parenting, and the irony is that every case of homosexual parenting I know of has produced outstanding, successful, well-adjusted (and ironically, usually heterosexual) kids.

From your newer post here I gather that a lot of what can make poly "safe for kids" is to refrain from exposing them to too much of it when they're too young.

Re (from Vajra):
"Since Debbie and I have been together we have had three men live with us, and Debbie's son liked all three of them and saw them as good friends and mentors."
Click to expand...

I am noting here that you did not necessarily tell Debbie's son he should see these men as "additional fathers." That point has come up a time or three in this thread.

Re (from Dickdomin):
"One set of parents totally freaked out, screaming at their daughter (which is the proscribed method for deflecting responsibility and shifting blame). She being a good daughter took full responsibility for both the broken lock and the lazy dog. She was such a good girl that years later, she knew that the proper response was to freak out about sex and anything sexual."
Click to expand...

That's pretty sad. The parents should have at least realized their mistake and come to apologize to their daughter right away.

We've had the subject come up before in this thread of when and how it's best to teach one's kids about sex. Opinions have varied.
 
Deviating from the norm.

Great point! I feel having a rigid standard is so successful. When the large group sets the standard, like in Nazi Germany, you get a very excellent result, not to mention all the good work they did with trying to get those disgusting Baby Jesus killers off the planet.

The liberal Allied agenda, just ruined things.

Because I have known many blacks (really my knowing was confined to a rather small subset of the females, but I interacted with the whole families socially)

There is a wonderful tradition of whipping your children violently, beating them with your fists with lots of church time. When one looks at the black population on the whole, I am sure for all of you as for me, model citizens, well educated and highly successful. Carrying the weight of society on their backs as it were with the disproportionate amount of taxes they pay.

Not enough child beating. I say.

When I read the Bible, I notice everyone talking about Eve and the snake and how they conned poor Adam. I seem to get lost in thinking about the fact that they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good & Evil. And. God threw them out of the garden after they became ashamed and got dressed.

Thank God, well really the Church for making sure the teaching of shame,that you are helpless hopeless, pus bags of sinful slime. That you should cover up your nakedness (now yes the strict Muslims do seem to be pulling ahead with that full body bag and the clitoris chopping).

Could you imagine how crowded that Garden would be, if we all stopped our rigorous division of all things into the good and evil. Good, hiding God created breasts, evil making love to many people. And I hope when we get done with the rough division, we go back and take a very hard look ant anything we have declared good and see if we have not been too liberal in our interpretation.

I mean be a good neighbor? What is that neighbor is a homo? But that might have been handled in the universal All homos are abominations act.

I mean good start with the gay bashing, and I know there is that do not kill clause, but what about killing for baby Jesus. And I think we can give a rousing applause for the Time for every purpose and all those good folks songs that gave it a good singalong.

I think we don't need to worry about the selling your daughters into slavery, covered, though. I must say I feel we might be in for a soft market with this downturn.
 
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Now let's not be sarcastic ...
 
kdt26417 said:
I am noting here that you did not necessarily tell Debbie's son he should see these men as "additional fathers." That point has come up a time or three in this thread.
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Ray is not his biological father and he calls him my dad.

Ipso facto: Debbie is not married to these guys. How could David think they could be fathers?

Was he out with the flu during that part of biology?

Re (from Dickdomin):

That's pretty sad. The parents should have at least realized their mistake and come to apologize to their daughter right away.
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Hey, they shifted the blame, job over. Now I do think there might be room for discussion about flogging the dog's trainer. And maybe, but I stress maybe consulting a lawyer and forensic engineer about the lock.

I think that her parents were undressed falls under bad (evil) parenting.

I think I failed to mention this set of parents used to scream at her if her underpants were ever seen when she was like three or four. Again I think the Muslims must be looked to for the enlightened view on this.

That whole "a child should be seen and not heard" OK gagging child, good, but allowing them to be seen? Or see? Slippery slope.

We've had the subject come up before in this thread of when and how it's best to teach one's kids about sex. Opinions have varied.
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Intrauterine and now with the newer large screen iPhone, we get a twofer. Though I know some of the women here are going to say the vibrate function is woefully inadequate.

I think waiting until children to ask, I mean the idea these are individuals and might develop at different rates smacks of allowing wiggle room on this whole deviating from the norm.

My youngest daughter taught herself to read at the age of two. I think this is the sneaky Japanese part, though my mother had me reading at the sixth grade level by the time I was six. Jury has been out for years.

I fully expect my mother will be convicted and since dead, resurrected and executed.

There was a teacher famed for getting her 2nd grade student to read at the sixth grade level before they entered the third grade. Fortunately, rather than adopt her methods she was moved out of teaching. I mean deviating from the norm must be rigorously policed.

And don't tell me these norms might change! Look at what happened when we freed the slaves. Now companies have to pay their employees. This has cut into their profit margins and their investors are suffering. Need a I remind you these are Not Buddhist investors.

I answered their questions when they asked, silly me. I am sure if I had consulted a priest or nun at a good Catholic school I would likely have gotten the answer Never.

And then the thorny issue of which syllabus, raises its head. Of course the fall back is Ken and Barbie, but in this I would definitely avoid Malibu Barbie. Hot pink angora would be inappropriate.
 
Re: poly and "the 'extra' parents" ... there is somewhat of a contraversy as to whether a child should call a biological non-parent "Mom," "Dad," or what have you. I think most people agree that the child should get to make that call.

Re:
"I think I failed to mention this set of parents used to scream at her if her underpants were ever seen when she was like three or four."
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Good grief!

Re:
"I fully expect my mother will be convicted and since dead, resurrected and executed."
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Then sent to Room 101. *Then* court martialed!

Re:
"There was a teacher famed for getting her second grade students to read at the sixth grade level before they entered the third grade. Fortunately, rather than adopt her methods she was moved out of teaching. I mean deviating from the norm must be rigorously policed."
Click to expand...

Heh. Who wants a deviant teaching their child, amirite?

Re:
"Look at what happened when we freed the slaves. Now companies have to pay their employees. This has cut into their profit margins and their investors are suffering."
Click to expand...

Puts the minimum wage debate into perspective ...
 
Letter to my daughter

I will never dispute how lacking I was in so many ways
Nor my failures and honorific missteps in raising you.

For your own sake and not mine,
I ask that you focus on those few things which I did well
and maybe on rare occasion beyond other parents

I find in my own life when I look a problems and work on problems
They multiply
If find this same thing true of success

I have adored you from the moment you were conceived
When you were born that adoration multiplied

I am not a graceful man overall
There are a few things I do with grace
Loving and caring for you has always been
One of my deepest desires
My inability to paint the pictures I have dreamed of your life
And our relationship
Is a testament of my lack as a technician in painting those dreams in life

Within my heart is a vision of a wonderful loving relationship
I am sorry I stepped on your toes so often
In my clumsy attempts to teach you to dance

Life deals the cards
You choose how to play the hand

Please choose with your best interests in mind

It is easy to spiral downward
Soaring seems to take vigilant attention

When I look back and focus on my mistakes and troubles
I frequently get hit in the back of my head
When I look forward and pay attention keeping my eyes on the goal
And remember those high points and feel them in my heart
I find I so often arrive sooner and with less trouble
Than I imagined the daunting task required

Still adoring you

Papa
 
As for the "what to call the non-biological parental figures" question... When Hubby and I began our relationship, after it was clear that it would be something ongoing (which was only about a month into it, to be honest), I left it up to my daughters what they wanted to call him. They chose to use his first name, and that's still the case now, six and a half years after our relationship began. Though the 19-year-old has occasionally called him "Dad," because she's closer to him than to her bio-dad.

I think in general, if kids are old enough to call anyone anything, they should be allowed to decide what they're comfortable calling adults in their lives, at least other than "Mom" and "Dad." But even within that... my 19-year-old calls me "Mom"; 16-year-old calls me "Mummy" because she thinks it sounds British and she has a thing for England.

My kids haven't really spent enough time with S2 to call him anything to his face, but if and when we reach that point, it'll be up to them what they call him. He and I may reach a point where he is another stepfather-like figure in their lives, but it'll still be up to them what to call him. And I'm sure that he's going to leave it up to his sons what to call me, regardless of where the relationship goes.
 
Dad was a joke

KC43 said:
called him "Dad," because she's closer to him than to her bio-dad.

I think in general, if kids are old enough to call anyone anything, they should be allowed to decide what they're comfortable calling adults in their lives, at least other than "Mom" and "Dad."
Click to expand...

I know I am always so serious.

I was more making a comment about David global dysfunctional mental construct

BDSM because the men are real men
Guys with big cocks are real men
Are two that stick in memory, but there were about 10-20 red flags that jumped out at me.
David has a very weak sense of self, I do not mean low self esteem
He also has that
All people in male bodies should....
Another

That he calls his nonbio dad is a minor deal
I suspect he does not know who is real bio is and this weighs on his mind
 
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