Valynn
Active member
I never gave him any reason not to trust me. I believe I got too close to him and he panicked.
That is exactly what I plan on doing for now.
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Poly or what?
- Thread starter Valynn
- Start date
That is exactly what I plan on doing for now.
Ah yes, everyone get perfectly healthy before you....
I do not believe in accidents, especially one that have friendships that are +20 years in length.
I have worked as a psychotherapist for decades. I rarely recommend walking away because I feel life is lessons and learning to deal with whatever you attracted is always beneficial. <and please notice "rarely"
So passive-aggressive, well, so what? When he says, "Just because... you guys can still play." and follows it with, "Well, I guess this means you don't need me."
The answer: "Yes, I don't need you. I just want you and love you. You can stay over there, or come over here. I would prefer you come over here, but if you NEED to stay over there, then I love you enough to want what feels best for you right now. Would you like to come over here? because you would certainly be very welcome."
This let's them know there is not an obligation, but a choice. They are responsible for making the choice and you are supporting them making either choice.
That B&W are talking about you sends me the signal that W wants to repair this, but likely has never learned to do that in the past, feels embarrassed and probably 6 other things. Notice how many people have told you to walk away, this is the default advice, what society tells us all the time.
When I asked about you and MFM, it was before you mentioned having some bi experiences.
You also mentioned B was straight, but there were time he and W "did things together", which I took to mean maybe more than playing Scrabble.
BDSM and abuse: I have seen a number of non-dominant men get into bdsm. Often they are sort of henpecked mama's boys who went out into the dating world got beat up by some women and then stumbled into bdsm, maybe a porn video or a story of some totally sub girl who only knew the word's Yes Master. He thought this is for me and when she didn't DO what he wanted he figured he needed to be just a bit stronger with the whip. People who abuse others do so almost always out of a sense of feeling powerless themselves. It is 'frustration lashing out.'
Learning to find the partners who "do some of the things that you find appealing in bdsm" and are not the abusers, does take a bit of time. It also takes so learning from your mistakes. Life is mistakes. The problem is we so often keep repeating the same mistake, using the same tools that didn't work before.
I also find that there are people who abuse getting matched up with those who get abused. <back to the no accidents.
I have known women from the same block in NYC, similar families, but one girl was raped 9 different times. The other never. Now I am not suggesting "Women who are raped are ALL asking for it", but when a woman manages to attract it 9 times... she is attracting it.
BTW that particular woman was a client and we discovered within her a need to be overpowered as the way for her to be sexual without Her Choosing to be sexual. (I have seen this in many Catholic girls and 'nice girls' who get 'forced' and go back over and over, forced.) In that particular case, she admitted she orgasmed and clearly did things that placed herself at risk. She needed it to be rape with a bit of violence, because she felt bad that she found sexual pleasure in the rape.
We were able to work through these things and got it so she could enjoy being a woman, enjoy being sexual and do that openly and lovingly. She never got raped again.
The Chinese kanji for Crisis 危机 is made from Danger 危险 and Opportunity 机会.
Most of us form our problems during childhood when we have poor coping skills and when we do not die, or subconscious brain says, "well that worked," and we keep doing it even though it likely had nothing to do our survival or was a poor choice.
I find we then attract more of that problem, I think of these as Opportunities, which often look like Crisis and Dangerous things that often keep going wrong. They go wrong because we keep doing the same thing, which has never worked in the past.
Life is about developing more choices and finding the choices that work better. This is what I do as a hypnotherapist and psychotherapist.
Most people start by saying, "He/She made me feel...xyz."
And this totally makes them powerless.
More accurate is, "He/She did abc and "I" Decided to feel xyz."
This puts the power into your hands. You can change how you Choose to Feel about something.
I would have you do two things.
1) make a list of every single person you know. Contact them about your business and ask for help. <Most people hate asking for help feeling we are being a bother.
Nearly every person I know LOVES the feeling that comes from helping someone, so asking for help is a Chance to Make another person a HERO.
Not Asking is STEALING that chance for another person to feel good.
So make the list, ask for help, ask them if they know someone who might be able to help and when they help be Very Thankful.
They will light up and so will you. This will become so much more than making soap or making a living.
2) Make a list of every quality you would like in a lover (I am guessing this might be 2 lists, one for the boys and one for the girls.)
Each morning get up and while you have coffee, rewrite the list. Look at the wording carefully, look at the order of each thing.
I did this once. My list in typical guy fashion had all the physical-sexual stuff first. 30 days later only one of those things survived on the first page about 2/3 of the way down the page, most were very differently worded and near the end of the 2nd page.
The morning I could not change anything, I met my wife, by complete accident in a place I never went and she went about 3 times a year.
While I find the Secret a bit smarmy, laws of attraction work and the difficulty is we tend to think in negative.
"I don't want a fat guy with bad breath who is stupid!" (Why are all these dumb fat guys with bad breath showing up?)
How about I want a fit, trim guy who is smart funny and has great hygiene.
As the Cheshire Cat said, "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."
Doc
I do not believe in accidents, especially one that have friendships that are +20 years in length.
I have worked as a psychotherapist for decades. I rarely recommend walking away because I feel life is lessons and learning to deal with whatever you attracted is always beneficial. <and please notice "rarely"
So passive-aggressive, well, so what? When he says, "Just because... you guys can still play." and follows it with, "Well, I guess this means you don't need me."
The answer: "Yes, I don't need you. I just want you and love you. You can stay over there, or come over here. I would prefer you come over here, but if you NEED to stay over there, then I love you enough to want what feels best for you right now. Would you like to come over here? because you would certainly be very welcome."
This let's them know there is not an obligation, but a choice. They are responsible for making the choice and you are supporting them making either choice.
That B&W are talking about you sends me the signal that W wants to repair this, but likely has never learned to do that in the past, feels embarrassed and probably 6 other things. Notice how many people have told you to walk away, this is the default advice, what society tells us all the time.
When I asked about you and MFM, it was before you mentioned having some bi experiences.
You also mentioned B was straight, but there were time he and W "did things together", which I took to mean maybe more than playing Scrabble.
BDSM and abuse: I have seen a number of non-dominant men get into bdsm. Often they are sort of henpecked mama's boys who went out into the dating world got beat up by some women and then stumbled into bdsm, maybe a porn video or a story of some totally sub girl who only knew the word's Yes Master. He thought this is for me and when she didn't DO what he wanted he figured he needed to be just a bit stronger with the whip. People who abuse others do so almost always out of a sense of feeling powerless themselves. It is 'frustration lashing out.'
Learning to find the partners who "do some of the things that you find appealing in bdsm" and are not the abusers, does take a bit of time. It also takes so learning from your mistakes. Life is mistakes. The problem is we so often keep repeating the same mistake, using the same tools that didn't work before.
I also find that there are people who abuse getting matched up with those who get abused. <back to the no accidents.
I have known women from the same block in NYC, similar families, but one girl was raped 9 different times. The other never. Now I am not suggesting "Women who are raped are ALL asking for it", but when a woman manages to attract it 9 times... she is attracting it.
BTW that particular woman was a client and we discovered within her a need to be overpowered as the way for her to be sexual without Her Choosing to be sexual. (I have seen this in many Catholic girls and 'nice girls' who get 'forced' and go back over and over, forced.) In that particular case, she admitted she orgasmed and clearly did things that placed herself at risk. She needed it to be rape with a bit of violence, because she felt bad that she found sexual pleasure in the rape.
We were able to work through these things and got it so she could enjoy being a woman, enjoy being sexual and do that openly and lovingly. She never got raped again.
The Chinese kanji for Crisis 危机 is made from Danger 危险 and Opportunity 机会.
Most of us form our problems during childhood when we have poor coping skills and when we do not die, or subconscious brain says, "well that worked," and we keep doing it even though it likely had nothing to do our survival or was a poor choice.
I find we then attract more of that problem, I think of these as Opportunities, which often look like Crisis and Dangerous things that often keep going wrong. They go wrong because we keep doing the same thing, which has never worked in the past.
Life is about developing more choices and finding the choices that work better. This is what I do as a hypnotherapist and psychotherapist.
Most people start by saying, "He/She made me feel...xyz."
And this totally makes them powerless.
More accurate is, "He/She did abc and "I" Decided to feel xyz."
This puts the power into your hands. You can change how you Choose to Feel about something.
I would have you do two things.
1) make a list of every single person you know. Contact them about your business and ask for help. <Most people hate asking for help feeling we are being a bother.
Nearly every person I know LOVES the feeling that comes from helping someone, so asking for help is a Chance to Make another person a HERO.
Not Asking is STEALING that chance for another person to feel good.
So make the list, ask for help, ask them if they know someone who might be able to help and when they help be Very Thankful.
They will light up and so will you. This will become so much more than making soap or making a living.
2) Make a list of every quality you would like in a lover (I am guessing this might be 2 lists, one for the boys and one for the girls.)
Each morning get up and while you have coffee, rewrite the list. Look at the wording carefully, look at the order of each thing.
I did this once. My list in typical guy fashion had all the physical-sexual stuff first. 30 days later only one of those things survived on the first page about 2/3 of the way down the page, most were very differently worded and near the end of the 2nd page.
The morning I could not change anything, I met my wife, by complete accident in a place I never went and she went about 3 times a year.
While I find the Secret a bit smarmy, laws of attraction work and the difficulty is we tend to think in negative.
"I don't want a fat guy with bad breath who is stupid!" (Why are all these dumb fat guys with bad breath showing up?)
How about I want a fit, trim guy who is smart funny and has great hygiene.
As the Cheshire Cat said, "If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."
Doc
Valynn
Active member
I am not walking away. I am taking a step back, I will continue to be their friends.
When this would happen we would say almost exactly what you suggested and he'd join in readily. I think he wanted to be asked at first. Then as time went on it became a real issue.
That is my opinion as well. But I also think he is giving me a "taste of my own medicine" by giving me the silent treatment for as least long as my depression lasted.
B identifies as straight. But he and W have been intimate on occasion in the past.
I haven't made a list of every friend I have to ask for help. But I have asked my family for help and it has backfired on me. Mom is helpful, but my 2 sisters & the eldest sister's kids are not. I have realized that I must do this on my own. And that is helping me shake off the lasting bits of depression.
I will do this and see where it gets me.
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Valynn
Active member
Updates
Today B called me to tell me that one of the housemates commented that I am not around as much anymore. And that they missed seeing me around. B said that he mentioned to W about it and W commented "Val just doesn't love us anymore." I felt like I was having my heart torn out. Why can't W just come around and talk to me. I am not giving him any silent treatments. My business isn't truly making money. And I don't have a job. And relying on friends for funds is not what I like to do. And after a while people will begin to resent you.
Today B called me to tell me that one of the housemates commented that I am not around as much anymore. And that they missed seeing me around. B said that he mentioned to W about it and W commented "Val just doesn't love us anymore." I felt like I was having my heart torn out. Why can't W just come around and talk to me. I am not giving him any silent treatments. My business isn't truly making money. And I don't have a job. And relying on friends for funds is not what I like to do. And after a while people will begin to resent you.
Valynn
Active member
I don't know. I think he's trying to keep us together. Maybe if he tells W & I what the other is saying maybe W will finally come around and talk with me.
Valynn
Active member
I never asked for the information. B is telling me all of this on his own. I have told him that I really want to hear all of this information from W himself. But W is still being silent.
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You might have to be firmer with B and tell him NOT to be telling you things about W. That you expect W to speak for himself when he is ready.
Then you aren't getting fresh dings from B. You can wait for W to figure himself out without this unwanted "bonus."
Galgairl
Then you aren't getting fresh dings from B. You can wait for W to figure himself out without this unwanted "bonus."
Galgairl
Valynn
Active member
I will tonight when B & I are going out for some friendly karaoke. Thanks GalaGirl!
The average person-on-the-street does not have the knowledge or training to help someone in a DEEP DEPRESSION!
Please seek out a trained counselor or medical professional.
As for W & B, sounds like it was more than FWB or they wouldn't have gotten so hurt.
This is not every friend, this is every person in the known universe, and when you ask them, ask them if they know anyone they think might be able to help.
I do not know what I wrote and no time to go back so briefly. I was hired by the SBA(Small Biz Admin) to help women start or improve small businesses in the NYC area. I did this for 200+ women.
Every single person who made a list could not feel she was done until there were 200 names. They would be saying, "THat would mean like my mailman and the guy who picks up my garbage!" <(stunning who these guys have stopped and talked to). ""YES, that's the idea. Everyone and do not forget your second grade teacher!"
In the end there will be rough 12 people who really make a difference and six of them will be totally WTF?!?!? The serendipity truly has a sense of humor.
And when someone says know, be glad that is cleared up. Because You have the rest of the list. There are diamonds out there. You do not have time to be depressed.
Hi Valynn,
Re (from OP):
It sounds a bit like FWB to me, but the line between FWB and poly is fuzzy, in fact, some people think of FWB as a subset of poly. [shrug] Sometimes you just have to decide for yourself what word fits best.
Sorry to hear how W's been acting. He's not being very forgiving/understanding.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
Re (from OP):
It sounds a bit like FWB to me, but the line between FWB and poly is fuzzy, in fact, some people think of FWB as a subset of poly. [shrug] Sometimes you just have to decide for yourself what word fits best.
Sorry to hear how W's been acting. He's not being very forgiving/understanding.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
Valynn
Active member
A little more backstory
As I said in my OP. I have had a serious crush on W for years. What I didn't mention is when we all agreed to this amorphous configuration of friendship we were all working together, with W as B & my manager. We agreed that we would keep this all to ourselves, cause no one else needed to now what went on after hours.
So for 4 years we all were always around one another. And things seemed to be wonderful. Then the store we worked at went out of business. B & W found work easy enough. I had trouble. When I finally found a job I thought, "Finally, things are looking up." Then my father passed away from Alzheimer's.
I threw myself into my CSR job, trying to over come my dyscalculia. I would either text or call W & B on my lunch hour. But W would comment that he felt that we are not as close as we were. Even though I would go over to their house any chance I would get. W felt I was 'running away from my problems at home.' And in one argument I said that 'I was as close as I can get. The only way I could be closer would be to move in. But that is impossible cause there is no room for me here! We cannot be in each other's pockets 24/7 like we used to when we worked together."
2014, seemed to physically go downhill for me. I developed tennis elbow, had frequent migraines & bad nosebleeds. Then to top it all off I fractured my knee. But the worst thing to happen was the sudden death of W's 22 year old nephew DJ. Ever since the funeral W has treated me differently. When I would ask him if he needed me to accompany him to see his sister & niece I was rebuffed.
It was at this point that I was getting uneasy feelings. But B told me to be patient. To give W some space & time to mourn. So I went to Pennsic as I had been planning. (See OP)
Looking back on this & something B said recently that W felt like everyone abandoned him while he was mourning. I has asked W if he wanted me to stay & be with him. He said no at the time, but obviously feels different now.
**RUBS HER TEMPLES IN FRUSTRATION**
If W would just sit down & talk to me about all this. Things would not be this difficult. and everything would be crystal clear on where we all stand.
As I said in my OP. I have had a serious crush on W for years. What I didn't mention is when we all agreed to this amorphous configuration of friendship we were all working together, with W as B & my manager. We agreed that we would keep this all to ourselves, cause no one else needed to now what went on after hours.
So for 4 years we all were always around one another. And things seemed to be wonderful. Then the store we worked at went out of business. B & W found work easy enough. I had trouble. When I finally found a job I thought, "Finally, things are looking up." Then my father passed away from Alzheimer's.
I threw myself into my CSR job, trying to over come my dyscalculia. I would either text or call W & B on my lunch hour. But W would comment that he felt that we are not as close as we were. Even though I would go over to their house any chance I would get. W felt I was 'running away from my problems at home.' And in one argument I said that 'I was as close as I can get. The only way I could be closer would be to move in. But that is impossible cause there is no room for me here! We cannot be in each other's pockets 24/7 like we used to when we worked together."
2014, seemed to physically go downhill for me. I developed tennis elbow, had frequent migraines & bad nosebleeds. Then to top it all off I fractured my knee. But the worst thing to happen was the sudden death of W's 22 year old nephew DJ. Ever since the funeral W has treated me differently. When I would ask him if he needed me to accompany him to see his sister & niece I was rebuffed.
It was at this point that I was getting uneasy feelings. But B told me to be patient. To give W some space & time to mourn. So I went to Pennsic as I had been planning. (See OP)
Looking back on this & something B said recently that W felt like everyone abandoned him while he was mourning. I has asked W if he wanted me to stay & be with him. He said no at the time, but obviously feels different now.
**RUBS HER TEMPLES IN FRUSTRATION**
If W would just sit down & talk to me about all this. Things would not be this difficult. and everything would be crystal clear on where we all stand.
I think it is pretty crystal clear where things stand as it is:
Here's how it sounds to me:
All this rigamarole has you SUPER FRUSTRATED.
That requires (your willingness to talk + his willingness to talk). You are not getting that one. He is not willing. He wants to keep being huffy.
The other way to solve the frustration is to let go of the want to talk to him about it. And just give yourself closure and permission to move on. That requires only (your willingness.)
You do not exist solely to be his attention supply and mind game decoder. W is way too high maintenance.
Galagirl
- W wants to make you the total scapegoat rather than take some personal responsibility for his share of the situation making. End of story.
Here's how it sounds to me:
- You had problems you had to attend to -- seeking employment, Dad with Alzheimer, etc. W thought you are not giving W enough attention supply. The reality is that you wish you could but simply were not able.
- He gets huffy.
- When he has a mourning thing to process, you offer to go with him now that you are more able. He "punishes" you for not giving previous attention and says "No, don't come." I think you were supposed to mind reader he means "yes, but hang around trying to woo me and lavish attention on me to get me to change my mind." (The real request is not going with him to his funeral thing, it's lavishing him with attention supply.)
- Instead? You take him at face value and just do not go to the funeral. (Good for you!)
- He gets huffy.
- Later you give the heads up you are going to your event and you might hook up. Keeping up your side of the agreements. (Good for you!)
- He doesn't want that. He wants Open for the guys but Closed for you. Rather than ask to change agreements, or for you to hold off til you can talk about new agreements? He expects you to mind reader him again.
- You take him at face value. You go to your event. When you get back? He withdraws to punish you for "not playing right."
- He gets huffy.
All this rigamarole has you SUPER FRUSTRATED.
That requires (your willingness to talk + his willingness to talk). You are not getting that one. He is not willing. He wants to keep being huffy.
The other way to solve the frustration is to let go of the want to talk to him about it. And just give yourself closure and permission to move on. That requires only (your willingness.)
You do not exist solely to be his attention supply and mind game decoder. W is way too high maintenance.
Galagirl
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Valynn
Active member
Probably, since he will not talk to me. I may never know his 'reasoning'
Add on also my responsibilities to my teenage son. Sometimes W would act, I dare say jealous, of him.
I actually dropped everything & got in trouble with work to go to the funeral. He actively kept me at a distance when I would try to comfort him.
Thanks. This event was about 2 weeks after the funeral. I told him if he wanted me to stay home I would. But he told me to go.
Yup
EXACTLY!!!
Right now I am trying to move on & give myself closure. But every time I go on OKC to get back into dating. I think to myself "I don't want to start all over again!" I did that when I got divorced. I don't have the energy for it. And my support system that got me through the bad part is what I am missing now.
Also February is bad month for me. Not only do I despise Valentine's day. It's also the day I got married on.
Valynn
Active member
I have a poly meetup on Saturday. Hopefully I will find the support I need there. My circle of girl friends I had has been 'overtaken' by J (W's new GF). I am now on the outside of the group. YAY high school bullshit all over again.
drgnfly
New member
I agree with GalaGirl, take the month off, Rest.
It's suck's your girlfriend's have been taken over. Like you said it seems like high school, you made it through school once, there is no need to go back to that if you choose not to.
Good luck on your poly meetup, let us know how it goes. I actually am exited to be going to my first poly munch in a few weeks, wondering what to expect.
It's suck's your girlfriend's have been taken over. Like you said it seems like high school, you made it through school once, there is no need to go back to that if you choose not to.
Good luck on your poly meetup, let us know how it goes. I actually am exited to be going to my first poly munch in a few weeks, wondering what to expect.