Is There a God?

Is there a God?


  • Total voters
    64
Blind faith

Personally, I don't find this statement to be axiomatic at all. Why should it be "inevitable and necessary" to have blind faith? What do you consider the hallmarks that identify someone as "functional"?

JaneQ

I think I'm am answering this correctly. I agree. I think most any Eric Clapton album will do. To limit yourself to blind faith seems narrow minded.

Now on the organized religion aspect I go with Jim and Tammy baker, no relation to ginger, but I would go with less makeup and teased big hair.
 
Thoughts de carte or otherwise

When my wife died her spirit-consciousness jumped into my body. It was a totally WTF moment for me. There is a long complex story attached to this, but...
After a few very long minutes of her talking a part of her left 'going to the light' and part stayed. She was surprised at how big and strong my body felt.

Call me crazy? Many have, I am 15 years on still a bit wtf about it.

She was 160 cm 44 kg before the cancer
I am 183 cm 73 kg and was an Olympic level skier, professional tennis player, and very gifted athlete in about fifteen other sports.

I never think of my body as big and strong. Never.
Nice body. Works well. But not something I think of as big and strong.

So thoughts

I have them. I suspect inside my brain, with atoms, molecules, cells, dendrites and chemical electrical pulses (if we can believe the pseudo scientists )

Now the moon makes the tides, sunlight and lack make the wind, which make the waves.
There was a scientist who proved boilers cleaned when the earth was headed away from the center of the universe sept-mar stayed cleaner longer than ones cleaned Apr- August and this could not be blocked by lead. This experiment was duplicated many times in different parts of the world and even two feet of lead did not stop whatever caused this. But did eliminate nuclear radiation from Sun's fusion fission reactions and solar wind. But what sort of energy is coming out of the center of the universe (total known universe, not out galaxy)

So how about a slight analogy the universe is a sort of brain
Known universe knowable god
Unknown universe unknowable god

Just a fucking shit ton (younger daughters favorite way to say a lot ) of waves of varying length passing through earth at any time.

This would make each of you god/goddesses and while not fully spun and woven, the string theory says everything is connected to everything else.

Past life, future life after life, so what?
What are you going to do RIGHT NOW?
Not even past Tuesday and next Tuesday

Now my wife jumping into me profoundly altered me.
I now have a part of me that loves raw tomato (wife)
Part of me that hates it (me)
Once having sex after she died, my body and hips especially started moving very differently (my work as a neuromuscular specialist is involved with teaching the brain's motor cortex, so very aware of my moving)
It felt like my wife (who did not have a penis, other than mine and the other men I brought to her) fucking this woman, who later said, "wow that was amazing. So different from the way you normally make love."

If only I could get her cleaning skills to take over for an hour or so. My house is a fucking mess.

Scientists observing an experiment can measurably alter the outcome. One group believes x and the experiment's results move towards x, another group believes y and the results move towards y. Unobserved do not move towards either x or y.

So do the prayers in the end zone effect the point spread in the Dallas-Huston games? When the Hail Mary pass is successful, is this divine intervention? (Zero score on the God/dess not intervening in our day to day life. Does that mean those people who believe in god,dess are giving prayers to the Hail Mary? And that drunk guy slurring, "he doesn't have a prayer!" If he is a trained scientist, does it make a difference?)

Anyone ever seen the a Russian experiments with Kirilian photography and the woman who could move objects like cigarettes in a bell jar and was not only better a bit drunk, but the energy radiating out of her fingertips nearly tripled when active and over ten times when active and drunk.

I should add, I studied physics (not a physicist), but I cannot crochet, so string theory is beyond you realm of knowledge.

Now the pope who pointed finger at Galileo were both wrong and close, the earth is not the center of the universe. I am.
 
Re (from Dickdomin):
"WTF! So like what? Did the principal give you a pass to get out of Algebra? Did you have to show him what was in your bra to get the pass?"

So ... Algebra is proof of a higher power? I don't get it.

When I was in school I showed the principal what was in my bra, but for some reason he wasn't very impressed. In fact he said, "That's very inappropriate."

Ohhh ... two to the higher power, now I see the light!

Re:
"And what about Austin Powers?"

Well what about He-Man? "By the Power of Greyskull ... I have the Power!" and besides, everyone knows someone stole Austin's mojo in the second movie.

Re:
"Dividing into good and evil big no no."

Interesting concept but can't we agree (e.g.) that the Holocaust was evil? or is that my Western mind desiring something thus enabling suffering?

Re (from Dickdomin):
"Is that a typo? Did you mean a sexular Buddhist?"

What, I can be a sexular Buddhist? Why didn't someone tell me, I'm a believer after all. "Then I saw her face ... now I'm a believer, I couldn't leave her if I tried." I used think they were singing, "Now I'm a big-leaguer."

Re (from Dickdomin):
"Science is always right."

Pelvic thrust. For Science!

Re: pseudoscience ... may be a subjective call so I won't argue about it.

Re: things we can't explain ... automatically get cited as God evidence. Dark energy is possibly the prime example of that at this time. Though we also can't explain most of how the brain works and maybe that should serve as another example. But I see that as a confirmation bias. We want something to be true, or we believe something ahead of time, and then any unexplained phenomena constitute proof of that something. If I was going to believe there's any God/dess/es, I'd have to have proof that was direct, specific, and thoroughly meaningful to me personally. Maybe that's my own confirmation bias speaking, but there it is.
 
Pelvic thrust. For Science!

"It's just a jump to the left.

And then a step to the right.

With your hand on your hips.

You bring your knees in tight.
But it's the pelvic thrust.
They really drive you insane.

Let's do the Time Warp again."


(Rocky Horror Picture Show - The Time Warp Lyrics)

?What?!? no fans here?
 
"It's just a jump to the left.

And then a step to the right.

With your hand on your hips.

You bring your knees in tight.
But it's the pelvic thrust.
They really drive you insane.

Let's do the Time Warp again."


(Rocky Horror Picture Show - The Time Warp Lyrics)

?What?!? no fans here?
Isn't it "that really drives you insane"? R. and I make a habit of re-watching RHPS together every October... so it's relatively fresh in my memory at the moment, hehe.
 
Isn't it "that really drives you insane"? R. and I make a habit of re-watching RHPS together every October... so it's relatively fresh in my memory at the moment, hehe.

yes...that is how I sing it...copy-paste from lyrics website leaves something to be desired...:cool:

To be fair it has been a number of years since I've dressed up and thrown toast at a movie screen...:D
 
You RHPS ... guys. :rolleyes:
 
Holocaust

Re (from Dickdomin):

Well what about He-Man? "By the Power of Greyskull ... I have the Power!" and besides, everyone knows someone stole Austin's mojo in the second movie.
I managed to watch the first, be sequels are usually".....


Re:
Interesting concept but can't we agree (e.g.) that the Holocaust was evil?
What if Hitler and crew were divine angels, sent to free those people from huge c
Karmic debt?

Karmic Bank, wow! And I thought the US tax laws were complex.

What, I can be a sexular Buddhist? Why didn't someone tell me, I'm a believer after all. "Then I saw her face ... now I'm a believer, I couldn't leave her if I tried." I used think they were singing, "Now I'm a big-leaguer."
I don't know about this. Quoting Monkeys!?! Now we at going to get a shit storm from the creationists.

"We angelic host proclaim, Christ was born..."

"We on jelly toast proclaim..."

Now in modest rebuttal (for fear someone might think I would ever argue, or be anything other than diplomatic), if Dubya doesn't look and act like the missing link...



Pelvic thrust. For Science!

Re: pseudoscience ... may be a subjective call so I won't argue about it.

Re: things we can't explain ... automatically get cited as God evidence. Dark energy is possibly the prime example of that at this time. Though we also can't explain most of how the brain works and maybe that should serve as another example. But I see that as a confirmation bias. We want something to be true, or we believe something ahead of time, and then any unexplained phenomena constitute proof of that something. If I was going to believe there's any God/dess/es, I'd have to have proof that was direct, specific, and thoroughly meaningful to me personally. Maybe that's my own confirmation bias speaking, but there it is.

Someone gave Ann Coulter a college degree! Now of course a Republican getting a blowjob, well I see a real possibility for an valid argument for divine intervention, Act of God right there!

I know you are looking for that fucking finger coming out of the sky and squashing the douchebag you are talking to.

Now I do not appreciate you quoting Time Warp.
I was living such a placid and peaceful life
You got and fucking idea how hard it is to download RHPS to an iPad in rural Inja!?!?
And don't give me any of that "I'm not a sub" BS!
I am turning you over my knee. And I do not ever spank someone to punish any longer, so just put this in the column, Divine Retribution.

We on jelly toast proclaim.
 
yes...that is how I sing it...copy-paste from lyrics website leaves something to be desired...:cool:

To be fair it has been a number of years since I've dressed up and thrown toast at a movie screen...:D

Toast?
Have you been to the Chelsea or Waverly in NYC?
 
Re (from Dickdomin):
"What if Hitler and crew were divine angels, sent to free those people from huge karmic debt?"

LOLOLO ... I'm not gonna touch that with a ten-foot pole.

(Besides, how could there be karmic debt if there's no good or evil? or is this just a semantic debate?)

Re:
"I know you are looking for that fucking finger coming out of the sky and squashing the douchebag you are talking to."

Don't ... tempt me, Frodo ...

Re:
"And don't give me any of that 'I'm not a sub' BS!"

I'm not a sub! I'm just a ham sandwich.
 
Karmic debt

Re (from Dickdomin):
Quote:
"What if Hitler and crew were divine angels, sent to free those people from huge karmic debt?"
LOLOLO ... I'm not gonna touch that with a ten-foot pole.

(Besides, how could there be karmic debt if there's no good or evil? or is this just a semantic debate?)

I lump this under the unknowable. I find these debts are not so much repaid, as transcended. Sort of in the get the lesson, or go to summer school, but in this case... Likely failing summer school and being sent to reform school.

Have you read Victor Frankel's book?
 
After being on the receiving end of christianity, definitely atheist here (until we discover evidence to the contrary)
 
Receiving end?

After being on the receiving end of christianity, definitely atheist here (until we discover evidence to the contrary)

So a strict Catholic upbringing? "Yes my son, this is the Body of Christ. Yes,that is Jesus's blood, it's white to show you the purity of his love."

You know Gawd tossed A&E out of the Garden for getting dressed. Church tells us to over ourselves. I mean to the mathematician in me this equals Christian Church = Devil Worshippers
 
No, not catholic, but I married a church goer, and I had the naive delusion that church was a harmless social club with kind and caring people.

I was W R O N G !
 
I have not read Viktor Frankl's book, and I don't feel obligated to read it. I've heard quite a bit about it and I've read quotes from it. I've also read Corrie ten Boom's "The Hiding Place," and I've seen "Schindler's List." In my opinion that suffices for me.

Perhaps I'll have to go to reform school to learn my lessons ...
 
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I would never say to someone that there is no God because I simply can't prove that there isn't one. As an Atheist I don't believe there is a God or higher power, but just because I personally don't believe it doesn't make it true.

I always keep an open mind and when someone asks "is there a God?" I simply say "anything is certainly possible, but I just don't believe there is a God".

:D:):p
 
Jesus coming soon

Now "soon" is such an interesting word across cultures.
But yesterday a charming crazy started screaming at me That Jesus is coming soon. I was wondering if it was to a theatre nearby or if he would have a bus, because I kept getting on buses that were not going in the right direction. I mean like six or seven of them.

Now crazy told me Jesus was the only true God, who confused me because, the Bible jockeys all say Son of God and Jeez himself says, I am the son of man (hope Joe was not still alive when this. Breaking news came out, because as best I can tell Mary seems to have gotten away with the I was visited by a Heavenly host (angel) and was now knocked up. (Yeah I know I still haven't looked up with the Limey gits say and I sure would hate another faux pas where I confused Mohamed with the Cheshire Cat))

I do love that insurance companies have gotten a legal ruling on "acts of god" but I mean I am sure most of the CEOs of those companies are the Children of H-man (Tokyo documentary) which was more blob, so radioactive couch potato? And if H-man was a blob, how did he get It Up? I am sure Mariko had an easier time selling Joshiki that the baby was an act of God, when it came out glowing.

I do like Sir Ken Richardson's story about the three wise men in a play, First I bring you Myrrh, second I bring you gold, third, "Frank sent this."
 
Hold it ... I think I get the point about Viktor Frankl. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the argument would go like this: Without the Holocaust, people like Frankl, ten Boom, and Schindler wouldn't have learned the invaluable lessons they learned, nor would they have subsequently passed those lessons on to the world. Accepting this argument means we can't call the Holocaust an evil, we can only call it a necessary evil.

As a bonus, I know that many people believe that we choose and create our own reality. The choice may occur on a level too high and too deep for us to detect it, but it's still our choice. If we accept that argument, then we have to say that deep down, the Jews (and their various fellow victims) actually wanted to Holocaust to occur (and orchestrated it on a fundamental if unconscious level).

I don't have strong responses to refute any of that, but for the curious I'll describe what responses I have.

To the second argument, my response is that I don't believe we have any powers to choose and create our own reality, beyond our limited abilities to influence our environment with our hands, our feet, our eyes, our ears, our mouths, and our (strictly physical) brains. (I don't believe in karma either, by the way. Nor reincarnation, nor any kind of afterlife.) I respect the fact that others believe differently than me -- and my beliefs might be dead wrong (which would probably be a good thing).

To the first argument, my response is that modern human imagination is very primative compared to, say, human imagination a million years from now. As far as we know, there might have been far better ways for Frankl, ten Boom, and Schindler to learn the lessons that they learned. We can especially say that about Frankl and ten Boom who were kind and enlightened people right from the start.
 
Seeing: how we choose to see

As a bonus, I know that many people believe that we choose and create our own reality.

To the second argument, my response is that I don't believe we have any powers to choose and create our own reality, beyond our limited abilities to influence our environment with our hands, our feet, our eyes, our ears, our mouths, and our (strictly physical) brains. (I don't believe in karma either, by the way. Nor reincarnation, nor any kind of afterlife.)

The Hitler thing for me came during a trip. We were discussing good and evil (I had just revisited the bible thinking it said don't eat from the tree of life and learned it said don't eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil.) but WTF I am the guy who mixed up Mo and Cheshire Kitty.

Someone said, "well we can all agree that Hitler was evil."
A girl said, "what if that isn't true?"
We had been discussing karma, which most held to be true, but they held it like a bank with debits and credits. I held it to be more in the lessons-transcendence category. I was in the how to deal with the dual, yet seemingly paradoxical Fate vs Free will, philosophical pondering in my life.

I've worked with a number of people interested in past lives. I generally hold these people in contempt, because I've met about 20 reincarnations of Cleopatra. Same with folks who have "acid trip flashbacks." People desperate for attention.
However, in my work I do hypnosis. I am working in This Lifetime and regressing a person to look for a source incident related to back pain.
One woman I was working with had gone back to two years old and no incident had revealed itself. Generally, we do not remember things before that, but I just said, "OK go back earlier."
Suddenly her voice changed. She was having an intense experience of being tied to a wheel with the hub of the wheel pressing into her back at the exact point of her discomfort in her present life.
I stayed with her and kept asking about what was going on. She described everything. I asked her her name and she gave it. This went on for nearly forty minutes before I brought her back to the present. I had detailed notes and a recording of the session.
I did not reveal to her what had happened. But said I felt we might need to have another session and see what we could find. This woman had worked with me for more than a year, very level-headed and trusted me.
We had another session I regressed her more slowly figuring we had somehow just missed the incident.
The same thing happened during the second session and I gathered more detail. Father's name. Mother's name I do not want to go into too much of this but it was weird to say the least.
After the second session, I asked her if she had any odd sexual fantasies and she said, one where she would be tied to a wheel and whipped.
OK, coincidence? maybe. I was not willing to believe at this point this was anything more than some part of her fantasy-imagination generated out of her present life.
About a year later, I met a historian from Oxford who dealt with the British Empire. Over drinks I mentioned this and asked him if there was anyway this woman could have read about this, paper, book anything. He and I met at my office and I gave him the past life woman's name, father mother and the location of the incident plus approximate time frame (a decade). A rough outline of what she described.
About six months later he called me from England. He had been in the archives of the government's colonial documents. He had looked everywhere for this woman, and found her, indeed father's name correct, same for mother. Father had been posted. He said these things were public, but by no mean common information. Nothing that would be in a book, history or newspaper etc, but he said not impossible.
"The Incident" he had found in that country's "cases" this particular case was sealed and not supposed to be open for another 20 or so years, but he broke the seal.
Her abduction, whipping, wheel, sexual relationship with her captor, his capture, her rescue and his execution were all recorded in detail and completely suppressed. She returned to England, a "virgin" married and had children.
He later flew to America with copies of some of the documents (he did not let us keep them for obvious reasons) but met with both me and her.
I had let her listen to her sessions, which she said sounded just like her fantasy.
The three of us met, read everything and discussed it. For me it was a stunning confirmation that indeed we had crossed to a different lifetime to a real incident that had been effectively covered up and not something she could have stumbled upon and generated into her own present day incident.
She agreed to be put under again, in his presence and regressed again to the incident. He was able to question he with very open ended questions, which she responded to with incredible detail, many of which were not in what he had showed us.
After that, I processed her the way I normally do with these events and her back pain and any reoccurance eliminated, but it left the three of us faced with a deep WTF!
I have had two other incidents of this nature. None of the people recalled were ever famous, written about and I was never able to verify. But that one incident was to me a shift in how I SEE things.
I even arranged for that woman to be tied to a wheel and whipped which she found both moving sexually and deeply cathartic.

The second life altering incident was my wife's death and her jumping into my body. I described it briefly before. This happened to ME! and I am skeptical. I could easily explain it as caregiver's remorse-guilt all of which I feel, but it was not some one off incident, it has been on going though much less in some 8 or more years. It has shifted me from "believing" in past life, that we have a spirit, soul, consciousness that extends beyond the physical- chemical reactions in our brains.

Back to Hilter. This discussion went on for hours. It was passionate, and far ranging. At some point someone mentioned how the Nazis or a small group were doing some very weird research and experiements in the mystic realms (the whole Indiana Jones and the Lost Arc is actually based in part on real stuff)

I threw out, what if Hilter and his group are avenging angels, that the brutal tortures were some way of balancing karmic debt.
The whole room stopped dead and my brain went off in its crazy paths. It was a mind fuck. When I add the woman's incident and its confirmation, it doubles the mindfuck and my wife takes it even further.

Do I think God is up there saying Oh that Runway Jones did a nice genuflect in the end zone I am giving this game to Dallas, but Bob in Las Vegas said Mother fucking Jesus Christ, so I am not covering the point spread! No.

Do I think if I am nice that when I die I get to go into the sky and eat some pie?
No.
That whole pie in the sky the current religions are selling, 72 heavens and 47 virgins or whatever, sounds like a con to me.

But at one point everyone poo poo old Louis Pasteur. The word Malaria means bad air, we used to cut folks and bleed them to let out the bad humors (as opposed to these Good Humors in the truck).

Atoms? I have never seen one, but I trust the people who think they exist. I do not think we are anywhere close to Grokking how the entire universe works. If I could put us on a spectrum, we've got wall phones, but with the short cords.

Do I think God wrote the Bible? Qu'ran? No. Do I think they have truths inside them? Yes. Do I think they are pure and holy? No. I think they are used to do more horrible things than good. When I see some guy hold out his empty hand, standing butt naked and see a book appear in his hand, I'd probably still think, more likely there is a Scotty up there who beamed it down. But would be more inclined to think it possible a God wrote That book.

To me if there is a "Book" written by God. It is the creation itself.

Please go read Nick Lane's Life Ascending: The Ten Great Inventions of Evolution.
It talks about how RNA got formed out of Not Living Things. And RNA makes DNA.
Little old guy sitting in a mud puddle cranking out different kinds of chicken pigs and goats, then moving onto man? Not a terribly all powerful God to me.
One who could create a universe where life rises up out of not life and evolves and transmutes into millions of life forms. That's got some fucking real potential for being a fucking interesting "being".
I do find when I divide shit up into good and evil in my own life, I am fucked.

Seeing? She's fucking batshit crazy!
Or
What did I do to trigger the button which is making her act like this right now?

I have said things to people who then went, "You fucking asshole! I fucking hate you I am never going to talk to you again! Not Ever!"
Five years later, called me up (and that means hunting me down) saying, "Wow, thank you. I got it. I couldn't see it then. I didn't realize what a loving thing you said to me."
Shift in Seeing.
 
Well I am not here to argue nor to diss anyone else's experience and belief. I certainly don't have all the answers nor can I guarantee that we live in a cold, mechanical Universe/Multiverse. I do know that the world is chock full of diverse religions and they all strike me as being wrong in the same way that my native religion, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, now strikes me as being wrong. After believing (for at least 25 years) that Joseph Smith, Jr., was a wonderful, lucid, sincere, honest man, only to then be exposed to the evidence that he was a wacky con artist and so were many (supposedly infallible) LDS leaders that followed him, I learned to be very skeptical about anything not taught by the likes of Hawking and Einstein. It's not enough to hear a remarkable story. I have to be in the story. It's not enough to hear about remarkable evidence. I have to see and experience the evidence myself.

That is, I require all of that if I myself am going to believe in anything supernatural. However, I don't place any restrictions on what others believe or on what basis they have for their beliefs. We have to allow each other that much freedom, otherwise we'll end up in a quarrel that never ends. I know for me life seems far too short for that.

I am mildly interested in reading this and that, but the reality is that I am an extremely pokey book reader and will not live long enough to read all the books that interest me. Some people devour books voraciously, easily knocking off several books per week. I'm more the type that might mosey through one or two books a year -- maybe. And I have a huge backlog of books I need to read, books I've paid good money to bring into my possession. To me, a book is not an informal reading assignment. It's a labor of love and I have to feel that love before I venture past the front cover. Long story short, I may have every good intention to read Nick Lane's "Life Ascending," but there's no point in asking me, "Did you read it yet?" If I read it, I'll let you know. In the meantime, I'll be happy to hear whatever you wish to tell me about it.

If I were you and had experienced the phenomena you described, I'd probably be a lot less atheist and a lot more agnostic than I am. I might have a 25% belief in the existence of some kind of God/dess/es, and a 66% belief in reincarnation. Maybe someday I'll have those kinds of experiences. I hope so.
 
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